DELETED: “Affordable Mountain Safety.” ADDED: “Resort-based Avalanche Transmitter."
Snow-Beacon has changed a lot of the language on their website since we blasted their product yesterday. The modifications to their website’s language was done to cover their butts.
We are happy that they now fully understand that their product is absolutely unacceptable for use in the backcountry. The change in their website’s language does not change the product. We still strongly feel this product is dangerous and unacceptable.
We blasted this product, the “Snow-Be”, yesterday because it’s an avalanche beacon that has NO SEARCH MODE, which is unacceptable. We want to make it crystal clear that we still do not condone this product in any way, shape, or form. Get a real avalanche transceiver, learn how to use it, & take avalanche classes.
Please read yesterday’s full post explaining why this product is so dangerous here:
“The Most Dangerous Piece of “Avalanche Safety Equipment” The World Has Ever Know | The “Snow-Be” Has NO SEARCH MODE.”
DELETED: “Affordable Mountain Safety.” ADDED: “Resort-based Avalanche Transmitter.” Then, they deleted that and ADDED: “Affordable resort-based safety for the snow-loving family”
WHAT SNOW-BEACON CHANGED ON THEIR WEBSITE:
1. They removed the founder’s, James Aubrey Robson, last name from the website completely…kinda shady. Now, the website just refers to the founder as “James” in the “About Us” section.
DELETED: "James Aubrey Robertson." Added: “James”
2. “Affordable resort-based safety for the snow-loving family” is sashed across every image on their homepage banner where it used to say “Affordable Mountain Safety” (see top image of post) and where it also briefly said “Resort Based Avalanche Transmitter” yesterday (see 2nd image of post). They’ve changed it twice in as many days as they scramble to figure out how to make this thing sound acceptable.
3. Email changed from [email protected] to [email protected]. They know they can’t ever say anything about off-piste again, but we all know that is exactly what they were dangerously marketing it for.
DELETED: "[email protected]” ADDED: “[email protected]”
4. In the “Snow-Be” product description they have ADDED in large bold letters:
“This is not a back-country product, it is ideal for in-resort family skiing in the northern hemisphere conditions.”
&
“Please be aware snow-be has no search function and you cannot find anyone with or using it.”
In the “Snow-Be” product description they have DELETED:
“Your personal guide, or snow-be, faced in either pink or dark grey, is your way of transmitting your location at all times.”
ADDED: everything you see in bold above.
5. Added to their “Buy” page is this tid-bit now:
“NOTE – Snow-be is NOT a receiver and you cannot use it to track other avalanche transmitter signals.”
6. There are even more changes and there will be more to come…
Unofficial was happy to receive strong support upon denouncing this product yesterday from both the American Institute for Avalanche Research & Education & the Canadian Avalanche Centre. Thanks guys.
American Institute for Avalanche Research & Education shares Unofficial’s post on ‘snow-be'
Canadian Avalanche Centre shared Unofficial’s post on the “Snow-Be"
The change in their websites language does not change the product. We still strongly feel this product is dangerous and unacceptable. Please do not buy this product.
Fuck it guys. Are you or your friends gunna use them? No.
It’s not just about our friends and family, it’s about letting people who don’t have avalanche education know that this product is not okay. If you didn’t know better, this thing could seem like a good idea and a short cut to actual avalanche awareness
HEY!!!! I, for one, do not think removing the founder’s name is not shady at all.
…oh, wait, hang on a sec…ah, yeah, yeah, that’s actually really shady now that I think about it.
This kind of product and behavior have no place in the avalanche safety world. Period.
This is life and death stuff, not marketing, deception, and iffy products.
ya but it might save you if you get burried in the chim chim chimney
This product makes sense, if used appropriately.
For children skiing at a resort, this is a great tool. If kids get stuck in tree wells, deep snow, or anything of the like, this could help them be found.
Also, people (again, children) who don’t know how to use the search function of a transceiver are just as unsafe as a beacon without search mode at all. Why pay 300+ for a tool when kids will ONLY USE the function that an $85 tool provides.
Before people go crazy, I am NOT advocating this at all for BC use. Never. never, never. But if marketed towards resort-going families, this does have purpose.
Now, imagine your kids are wearing snow-be on a powder day at Jackson Hole and feeling confident and stoked on a great day
kid 1: “Should we duck the rope and go out of bounds for a few turns?”
kid 2: “Yeah, why not, we’ve got our “snow-be”s to protect us in case there’s an avalanche, right? That’s what they’re for, right, avalanches? Lets go!”
This is how children think. Trust me.
You are obviously not that intelligent of a mom, as you can’t seem to understand my post.
1) I am speaking about young kids skiing with either their parents or a ski school, not local teenagers skiing with their friends. Not everyone is a hard-core and trying to send it. There are plenty of gapers (the overwhelming majority of skiers, in fact) who would never think to go OB.
2) If the kids you mention dont know how to use the search function on a normal beacon, what good would it do them anyways? You could argue that it gives people a false sense of security, but again, we are talking about different target markets. And if that is your argument, then you are advocating nothing over a snow-be, which is incorrect.
3) An intelligent mom, who knows how kids think, should anticipate that her kids are gonna go OB and get them proper training and avalanche gear. That is intelligent.
You, ma’am, are from from ‘intelligent’. Quit trying to sound like the absolute moralist and instead spend your time re-reading comments and actually figuring out what they mean.
Good: She gave anecdotal evidence that is reasonable in this discussion.
Bad: You attacked her personally.
Worst: Using wild assumptions that you have no way of knowing or backing up.
Please learn the difference between anecdotal and hypothetical.
I can imagine a world where you know the difference and you sound less like an idiot (hypothetical)
I once had a friend who didn’t know the difference. He was an idiot (anecdotal)
@ Chaz McBono
I love you. Marry me.
If they were wearing a real beacon their train of though would be exactly the same, if not even worse, because they would think they could rescue each other. This is no better or worse than a regular beacon in a resort setting.
If that’s what its acceptable to use for then that’s what they should say. “this product is good if you get stuck in tree wells, or have trouble in deep snow” not as an avi safety device. Anyone that gives one of these to there kids is a moron, get them a beacon and teach them how to use it. Not to mention the idiots that are going to wear these won’t have shovels or probes so if there is an inbound avi and patrol needs help to find YOUR friend, you’re about as much good as wet bag of sand.
How does this beacon help save lives falling into tree wells or buried in-bounds? Are you kidding? Do you have any idea how long it takes for patrol to be notified, respond, begin searching, locate victim(s), dig and clear airway?
Anyone who buys these will have a false sense that patrol will get to them in time if something goes down. Bottomline: it is very unlikely a third party can save the day in-bounds or side-country. This company can write whatever they want. This product is incredibly dangerous has great potential to do more harm than good to the users and their families. Next, automobile and firearms manufacturers could create more affordable products by save eliminating safety devices.
AVALANCHE SURVIVAL CURVE:
http://www.earnyourturns.com/9079/avalanche-survival-time-reduced/#more-9079
But in case anyone is too lazy…
“According to this study, if you’re buried in an avalanche in Canada your chances of survival drop precipitously to only 79% after a mere five minutes where they hold until 10 minutes out, then continue falling into the abyss of eternity. By the time 15 minutes have passed, only 40% survive, and there isn’t much life left after that.”
I think it’s wrong to assume that a 10 year old couldn’t whip out his transceiver and find your buried ass, some kids are pretty smart and tough under fire. And teach a kid super young to use one properly and it becomes second nature. Don’t dumb down technology, but educate and elevate these young uns.
ahem. give em a real transceiver now! so they can grow to learn to use it.
I’m going to go ahead and read ahem = amen.
and I agree.
My only point is that it is unrealistic to expect gaper families to won or know how to use transceivers.
For overprotective parents who want to know their lost child can be found, these offer a potential solution.
Never did I say this is good for the BC. Never did I say this is good for anyone who reads this blog.
Put yourself into the mind of a gaper for a minute, and you begin to see how this may have some value.
The issue is not with the product, but rather the marketing. This should not be marketed as avalanche gear, but rather a lost child finder.
You mean a DEAD lost child finder.
You need to go back to school and repeat Logic & Reasoning 101.
We ARE putting ourselves in the minds of gapers and their families. We ARE being VERY realistic because it’s very important to look at real-life scenarios.
Cmon now. I welcome you to think about this.
This product started out being marketed as a “Affordable Mountain Safety” with an email address “[email protected]”. Off-piste IS the backcountry. Do anyone believe the company with be so ethical as to discontinue marketing it towards snow environments and start using it as a lost child finder? Sure maybe they can call ski patrol when they’ve lost their child.
If used as a ““Resort Based Avalanche Transmitter”, as the new marketing campaign is wording it’s function, this will simply aid Ski Patrol in body recovery. The reason? After 10 minutes of burial time, survivability is diminished to 80% and drops like a steeply from there. After 15 minutes only 40% will survive. How long does it take to contact ski patrol? Do they have a patrol shack at the top of the slope or will precious time be spent during code 3 rush to the debris field? How long will it take for them to ride a chair lift or snowmobile up a slope? How long to locate, dig and clear airway? How long until they can pull the full body out to begin CPR?
This is the reality. If you are in an avalanche at a ski area weather in-bounds or gate-accessed side-country, your survival depends not on patrol or third parties. It rest in the tools your buddies have and…AND the training they have to use them. Seriously. You want your airway in 3-5 minutes tops. Can patrol do this? NO.
Unless you are an expert on avalanche safety, please
This product is marketed as a resort based safety tool. Using the term “safety” implies it will save lives as do other products described as “avalanche beacons” have demonstrated. By omitting the search feature, removes the search ability from anyone using it and places the search ability upon the next closest party with an avy beacon capable of searching. Ski Patrol. Who’s response time is very far outside of the survivability window for an inbounds or side-country avalanche.
In reality, this tool will aid in recovering bodies and should be recalled.
In the same way, if you are riding with your buddies and one of them goes down into a tree well and you assume they just rode down to the chairlift. By the time you figure it out and take another lap to search for them they will probably be dead. This is exactly why it can be very dangerous to ride with too many people (more that 2-4) in the trees on a huge pow day. You thought you saw them ride down. But it was actually someone else and your buddy is upside down trying to reach for a branch or yell, beginning to die of asphyxiation, while you are waiting for the at the lift line or riding the chair back up.
Dead Body recovery. Sounds like a great solution.
no you are wrong. This does not make sense because there is no appropriate use. When has someone’s kid become stuck or lost in a tree well or deep snow, IN BOUNDS, the ski patrol and parent could not find them, and a beacon was the only reason they were found?? If not never, pretty close.
Keep track of your kids or leave them at home like everyone else. Or stop worrying so much because you are at a RESORT. Let ski patrol do their job.
How does this beacon help save lives falling into tree wells or buried in-bounds? Are you kidding? Do you have any idea how long it takes for patrol to be notified, respond, begin searching, locate victim(s), dig and clear airway?
Anyone who buys these will have a false sense that patrol will get to them in time if something goes down. Bottomline: it is very unlikely a third party can save the day in-bounds or side-country. This company can write whatever they want. This product is incredibly dangerous has great potential to do more harm than good to the users and their families. Next, automobile and firearms manufacturers could create more affordable products by save eliminating safety devices.
AVALANCHE SURVIVAL CURVE:
http://www.earnyourturns.com/9079/avalanche-survival-time-reduced/#more-9079
But in case anyone is too lazy…
“According to this study, if you’re buried in an avalanche in Canada your chances of survival drop precipitously to only 79% after a mere five minutes where they hold until 10 minutes out, then continue falling into the abyss of eternity. By the time 15 minutes have passed, only 40% survive, and there isn’t much life left after that.”
Not going on my kids…they are worth more than a few hundred.
Would be good for your dog. Unless he knows how to switch over a beacon to search and find your body.
I refuse to ride ANY terrain with a dog that does not know how to use the “search” function on a beacon. Unless of course that dog was in fact, Snoop Dog.
I am sorry, I love my dog very much, but, I would not strap one to my dog. If my dog and I are buried in an avalanche, I want to be found. If my dog is wearing a beacon, she could be found first and reducing my chance to survive.
Someone pointed out in the other thread that dogs can not use the same frequency as humans so that they don’t interfere with a search for a person.
Sounds legit.
Nice work Unofficial! Probably saved some lives….
Good one unofficial. Very important post. The protocol for group leaders to run “walk-by” beacon tests would have to totally change if products like these make it into the market. Would you want the only person left standing in a multi-burial to be wearing one of these?
It is pretty shocking the owner was actually marketing it for off-piste! Certainly he didn’t think this through, nor the long delays in patrol response times.
Very, very irresponsible.
If this thing was $10, i would totally rather have this compared to a RECCO if in bounds. But at ~$80 USD + shipping, an extra hundred can get a used Ortovox F1 or BCA Trakker. Price = product fail.
The only thing this product will be good for is reducing the time and expense to locate and recover bodies buried in tree wells and avys, just like the recco but more expensive.
Dude, i am pretty sure that was my exact point. This = recco but alot more expensive. So Just spend the extra $$ and get a real beacon if you plan on buying anything.
Hey unofficial I want to give it up to you guys here. This is what journalism is truly about. Not just reporting on the good stuff, but uncovering the bad to help change the world in a small way. You may have saved some lives here. Mad props to you guys for great journalism.
I had a dude roll his SUV on a logging road while he took a corner right in front of me. When we pulled them out of the wreckage the first thing he said was he didn’t know how it happened because he was in 4 wheel drive.
I didn’t call up the inventor of 4 wheel drive and tell him his marketing was misleading.
All these devices are just tools. We decide if/how we use them. Smart people get informed and use the tools wisely. Others roll their cars. Nothing you can do about it.
Bad and dangerous product, period. I don’t think any ski areas would be happy to see idiots running around their slopes wearing these expecting to be rescued if something does happen to them. Ski areas pay enough for liability insurance the way it is, and this product is a major liability that will cause problems for them to be sure.
Where can i get one!?!?
Obviously just a marketing ploy.
It would be an excelent product for your dog or somthing to attach to your sled or skis.
I’ll probably get one. Not to use as a beacon, but to use for practice searches. I’ll hand it to some friend to go burry and then I can go look for it with my (real) beacon. Then when I actually go out there, of course I’d only take the real one with me
Really… you are going to spend $80 for a practice beacon…?
While I whole heartedly believe in regularly doing practice searches, I am vehemently against stupid spending.
Why not just bury the friends beacon… the same friend that you had bury your “practice” beacon…?
Also, keep in mind that RECCO reflectors are practically marketed as avalanche saving. Few people understand what they do, and that snow patrol a) needs to know you’re missing, and b) needs to have a recco gun and c) go find you.
This thing is basically just an active RECCO tag. I agree this thing is not great, but look how RECCO is marketed, and if anyting, it has emboldened people to take more risks since they are RECCO “protected”. From the RECCO site:
The RECCO reflector provides a second chance
RECCO® reflectors do not prevent avalanches, nor do they guarantee location or survival of a buried or lost person. Reflectors are also not a substitute for an avalanche rescue beacon. However, when someone needs more help than their friends can provide, RECCO® reflectors do provide another chance.
It’s weird. every account I read of an avi death describes the victim as: “experienced backcountry skier” ; “he had all the avi gear” ; “he was following all the correct protocol” . Do you guys REALLY know wtf you are doing out there?? I have a few friends with hundreds of safe BC excursions to their name, and that is worthy of much respect. But this sport is heading into bad times; it cannot support the huge numbers of wannabee’s going into it, crowds, shit shows, competition, hostility, gear-techy focus, going to the dogs soon IMO. feel bad for the true soul-skier-mountaineers.
Snow-Beacon has changed the site again, replacing “Afforable resort-based safety for the snow-loving family” to “Affordable multi-burial avalanche training tool”. And the “About Us” page has been removed.
How about some support for a start up company…..
So the founder made a mistake regarding his initial marketing strategy, this equipment was never really designed for back country skiing and he should have known better but after talking with him in November 2012 about this product I believe there certainly is an opening in the market for it when used correctly.
Bag them all you like but in the end this is a quality product that will hopefully enable a few extra lives to be saved in the ‘God-Forbid’ in resort avalanche scenario.
A company resorts to all types of techniques and tactics in order to save their name and this is what this company is also doing.
I want one for my dog?…
The Danger is that in modern marketing, a “Beacon” is sometimes just a Beacon and sometimes it’s a Proper Transmitter/Receiver. Even the manufacturers have caved in and call transceivers beacons.
In a more sensible world, we had different words for different devices.
“Beacon” is American English for “Avalanche Radio Transceiver”
“Doggie Beacon” is American English for “Beacon”.
(In British English, A beacon is a transmit-only signalling device).
(Except it seems that somebody in USA has ‘simplified’ proper English by redefining the words.
(By the way, a Recco reflector is a Transponder – which only transmits in response if it receives an interrogation pulse).
Point 2. The “Tryptich” must be carried (Transceiver, Probe and Shovel).
What’s the point of a 5-year-old locating you if it hasn’t got the means or the strength to dig you out?
Guy’s still at it under yet another name/website
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2266973#2266973